🎙️ Gretchen Rubin on Happiness, Habits, & Podcasting Success

Presented by Cozy Critters

🎧 Are You Telling a Story or Selling a Story?

Every podcast is selling something. Maybe not a product, but an idea. A feeling. A perspective. The question is: Are you selling it so hard that you forget to tell it?

A great story doesn’t need a sales pitch. It pulls people in because it matters, not because it’s been polished to a high-gloss sheen. The best podcasters—just like the best musicians, writers, and filmmakers—understand their job isn’t to convince you to care. It’s to tell a story so compelling, so rich with truth, that it slips past the intellect and settles in the bones—where it lingers, refusing to go quiet into the night.

🎙️ Signal Flow: Gretchen Rubin

Industry game changers and valiant minds from creative professions share their wisdom, adversities, and paths to innovation.

Gretchen Rubin is one of today’s most influential and thought-provoking observers of happiness and human nature. She’s known for her ability to convey complex ideas—from science to literature to stories from her own life—with levity and clarity. She’s the author of many bestselling books, such as The Happiness Project, Better Than Before, and The Four Tendencies, which have sold millions of copies in more than thirty languages. Her most recent book is Life in Five Senses. She’s also host of the popular podcast, Happier with Gretchen Rubin, and founder of award-winning Happier app, which helps people track their happiness-boosting habits. Gretchen Rubin has been interviewed by Oprah, eaten dinner with Nobel Prize-winner Daniel Kahneman, walked arm-in-arm with the Dalai Lama, had her work reported on in a medical journal, been written up in the New Yorker, and been an answer on Jeopardy! After starting her career in law, she realized she wanted to be a writer while she was clerking for Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor. Raised in Kansas City, she lives in New York City with her family. Happier with Gretchen Rubin along with other Gretchen Rubin Media shows Happier in Hollywood and Side Hustle School have recently joined the Lemonada Media network for ad sales and distribution.

As a writer, I had started blogging and was interested in engaging with an audience in a more direct way. Then podcasting came around, and I thought, this is a completely different way to connect with people about ideas that excite me. I couldn’t resist.

My co-host is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. For years we talked about collaborating. When I was approached about doing a podcast, they said it’s often good to have two people. Immediately, I thought, absolutely, my sister.

One of our inspirations was Car Talk. We often say we’re Car Talk for happiness.

A lot of people tell me, “I could never work with my sibling.” But it works for us. With Happier with Gretchen Rubin, I do the bulk of the work, and it has my name on it. But Elizabeth also has Happier in Hollywood, which she does with her writing partner. So she has her own space as well.

When we started the podcast, I told Elizabeth, “This is probably going to be a big flop, and it will be very public.” And we both agreed, okay, let’s do it anyway. We had no expectation of success. Our mom even asked, “Don’t you think you’ll run out of ideas in six months?” But we’re both professional writers. We knew we could keep it going. If anything, we have more ideas now than when we started.

We’ve never missed a week. No breaks, no seasons, no holidays. We’ve never missed an episode, and we’re incredibly proud of that.

I don’t pay much attention to stats. I probably should, but I don’t. What I do pay attention to is audience response—emails, social media, people telling us what they loved or what resonated with them. That’s how I know when something is working.

Podcasting brings spontaneity into my work. As a writer, I spend so much time making sure every word is exactly right. Podcasting is more conversational, looser, fresher.

I was surprised by the depth of connection you have with your audience in podcasting. When I had a blog, I already felt connected to my readers. But it’s different with a podcast. Listeners feel like they know you personally. And I get it—I feel the same way about the podcasts I listen to. You start to care about the hosts. If they’re sick for a while, you worry about them.

I remember when my sister was voice-identified in a drugstore aisle. Someone overheard her talking and recognized her just by her voice. I’ve had people recognize me in the Met because I go there every day. Listeners know that about me, so when they visit, they keep an eye out for me. It’s funny because when they see me, I feel like saying, “See? I told you I come every day.”

For happiness in podcasting—and in life—think about your physical body. Your physical state colors your emotional state. Get enough sleep, move your body, take care of yourself. That’s foundational.

Connection is another huge factor. Talking with other podcasters, sharing ideas, troubleshooting together—it's energizing. I love talking shop. The more relationships you build, the more you learn, and the more fun it becomes.

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I started a podcast manifesto before we even launched our first episode. It’s a document of guiding principles—things we aspire to, even if we don’t always get them right. One of the rules is Beware of Banter. There’s fun, purposeful chat, and then there’s rambling that makes listeners think, “Why are they still talking?” We try to keep things intentional.

Another principle: People love to learn, but they also love to teach, share, and correct. That’s why we engage listeners so much. We ask them to send in ideas, solutions, and hacks. Our Happiness Hack segment is all about that—little useful tips like “use hooks instead of hangers.” It’s not life-changing, but people love sharing and discovering those kinds of things.

A community is different from an audience. An audience listens; a community participates. We want listeners to feel heard and involved. That’s a big part of what makes the podcast work.

We aim for consistency and surprise. Listeners want to know what to expect, but they also love being surprised. That’s why we experiment with things like Clear the Decks, where we tell listeners to pause the podcast, go complete a task, then come back. People loved it. We later did Deck the Halls for the holidays.

You can tell what’s resonating by the audience's reaction. If people flood us with emails and messages saying, “Do that again,” we know it worked. If something gets little response, we move on. The engagement tells us everything.

Understanding our values and living up to them is a huge source of happiness. That’s why the podcast manifesto matters. It helps us stay clear on what we believe makes a good show, and it keeps us aligned with our purpose. That kind of clarity makes creative work more satisfying.

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🥾 Further Exploration

Reporting Dark Matters

In this vital piece from Transom, Rob Rosenthal explores the challenges of reporting on difficult topics, featuring award-winning journalists Luke Malone and Pat Walters.

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🤔 Hans Zimmer, Zelda, and Dallas Taylor walk into a bar

🤐 Sharing Your Secrets with the World

🎧 Rob Rosenthal on Good Storytelling